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Forums :: Forums :: GENERAL DISCUSSION
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Big Bear Lake trying to get rid of short term rentals via onerous regulation

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Author Post
Sun Jul 21 2019, 07:13PM Email Thread Print View
Registered Member #42113
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2019, 08:25AM
Posts: 43
Shocked to see all of the new regulations that BBL city council is approving, obviously influenced by existing local property management....Have to take a "Training class" as a private homeowner who wants to rent out your own property to guests? Manager or owner HAS to meet renter in person to hand off keys? Manager or owner HAS to live within 15 miles?( clever how they cut off just Before Green Valley lake, so only big bear managements qualify.)

Illegal to use hottubs, even on your own property after 10pm? Owners MUST pay double digit taxes on Gross Income Quarterly, even if you are losing money with the outrageous 25% and higher fees the local "management" companies charge to keep property unarguably in WORSE/dirtier condition, ( responsible, cheap labor up the hill being notoriously unreliable/unavailable ) than you would have kept it yourself, as the responsible owner.

Our folks rented BirdsNest recently from a major local rental company, dirty, sheets cheapest, frayed, towels stunk, dust/dirt evident to a level that would mortify me if it was my house I was renting out.... And nobody refutes that the rental companies are worse caretakers than your personally vetted houskeepers are, as when they don't keep homes clean, they are held accountable..... Yet the council uses the excuse that these regulations are to "ensure the high quality of rental properties", when patently and uncontested the majority of local management companies upkeep is worse than you would do yourself.

It appears the council is in the pockets of the local rental companies, who almost universally don't keep the houses as clean as more accountable people(homeowners themselves).

I would like to hear a response from anyone on the side of the city to explain how you will have to suck up declining property values to people trying to barely help keep even with their home ownership costs by supplementing their income.

Sorry for the upset rant, I just got off of the phone with a friend who was sobbing... has to now sell her BBL Maltby style home as the house she owns can no longer break even on her retired income, with these new "helpful" rules obviously designed to try to kill the PRIVATE short term rental industry here. To add insult to injury, her asking price was origanally met, and in escrow, discovery by buyer of these rules caused buyer to back out, and she now has to reduce price to attract a buyer who wishes to own a house that they will not rent. problem is, now she will no longer be able to come up and enjoy her home every season, as she has for the last 10 years. This is the direct harm to people that corruption without balancing control causes,

This is what happens, in my opinion, to small community councils that have checks and balances erased with insider cronyism, to benefit 3 or 4 local rental companies, to the aggregate loss of tens of millions of dollars to home values that get stolen from all the homeowners aggregately.

Huge lawsuits are coming, I,'ll wager.

I know there are always going to be bad renters just by statistical probability, but there has got to be a better solution than the standby of the lazy/unaccountable, which is just to regulate freedoms in the name of "controlling" a problem that most would not consider a "problem".
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Polar Orbit
Sun Jul 21 2019, 08:00PM
Registered Member #14051
Joined: Thu Mar 16 2017, 06:32PM
Posts: 212
Graft, corruption, and power... I don't rent, but have neighbors who do. I can't disagree with anything you have presented. The little folk have to band together somehow to fight this.

Don't blame me! I was left unsupervised!
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Around The Lake
Sun Jul 21 2019, 08:33PM

There is no such thing as a nobody as everyone touches someone's life
Registered Member #16
Joined: Mon Sep 25 2006, 10:38PM
Posts: 4227
It has become more difficult for the home owners to live near a vacation rental. The noise in the neighborhood from parties on the decks in the hot tub’s late at night is more common now than ever . The poor management for many of the rental companies is very evident . Homes are very unkempt. I can understand the need to take control of this poorly regulated Industry here in the valley . There is nothing wrong with requiring the rental company to be responsible This is a very hard subject to talk about. For us home owners who live close to the home rentals. This is why you pay the huge fees to the company you i entrusted with your property . Having a neighborhood quiet at 10 PM is not an unreasonable request . Having a tax like every hotel and motel is only fair. As for the high management fee That is totally controllable by the owners Banning to gather to change it . Your friend is not going to loose as everyone who is renting their home will be subject to the same regulations . If a owner once a higher occupancy their home needs to be clean have nice sheets and towels. The carpets need to be clean just like every hotel , lodge or motel you rent at a comparable rate .
I truly believe everyone has rites to try to cover some of their cost but to be angry that the town and it’s residences that are taking the impact from a business in residential communities including funds to cover simple needs like fire suppression Department also should have the opportunity to even out the impact to the community and the town itself.
I would love to come home and enjoy my home without being afraid of the trash in my yard from the rental next door or find a car parking on the Burm in front of my home and the parties late at night . Please remember the regulations as you propose will not stop home rentals they are just making sure someone is responsible for the home being rented. If you are a Air and B sounds like a great opportunity to develop a simple check in and out company who holds on to the keys and makes sure the home is Being taken care of by your cleaning Service . Or your in trusted caretaker . For every single obstacle There is always a positive resolution .

Todd C
A Smile Goes A Long Way To Making Somebodys Day Great
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Airport Razz
Sun Jul 21 2019, 08:43PM
Registered Member #7434
Joined: Tue Feb 12 2013, 10:07PM
Posts: 294
Been through all the training classes (training my foot), sat through hours of yada yada yada a couple of times now. We have filled out our Affedavits and are registered with the city to provide 24/7 'Boots on the Ground' Services for down the hill and local owners. We started out using a combination of electronic devices to facilitate what we do along with personal text communication with each renter as they come into the valley. We have had ZERO complaints in over 5 years but now we have to completely redo our pricing structure to either provide a 'Face to Face' meeting to grant access to the property or have a brick and mortar place for renter to go to to sign for keys. The forcing of signing a 2nd contract for AirBnb renters is redundant and just pisses people off and makes them suspicions of the owners. As for determining if renter is of capacity to complete the rental (not drunk or high) is just setting us up for a racist charge not to mention having to have someone out in the town at night, sometimes after midnight if renters are running late. Or I have to pay some poor schlub to sit in office till last renter shows up, Gee I wonder how much an office to use as a key service will run. HMMMM, seems this is how it was done in the past and it sucked which is why everyone started using electronic devices. My job is not to determine the quality, the sanity or the sobriety of the incoming guest. My job is to provide them with a well maintained, properly opened, clean and prepped cabin and my owners insist on getting the 5 star review. Any vetting has been done directly by the owner so why the heck do I need to meet and greet when I have direct contact with them. Agree that this is a push from the bigger companies that have brick and mortar and have found out that people are sick and tired of putting up with thier BS and how they treat the properties and the renters. And the owners are no better than dirt most of the time. Houses are inventory. My owners have a sense of pride and insist on it from the renters. AGAIN, no problems with multiple cabins and owners so what we offer WORKS. We provide 24/7 response to any 866-CODE call so the expensive building inspectors don't have to go out on each call, only if the call isn't dealt with and gets a second report. Oh My, Mr. 125K a year building inspector has to work for a living. And 9 times out of 10 they are going to just call the sheriffs anyway. Let me do my job, work with my owners and renters and not make such a nuisance of my self with this face to face crap. As it is, if this keeps up I will have to raise our prices to the point that it just will push that owner out of the market. Unfair competition is what this is turning out to be. The big companies are PISSED and are going to work with their tax base to hold everyone hostage. Also nice to see such a nice new visitor center (we had one already that wasn't properly used or advertised, hm, isn't that what they do?) at the cost of all that new tax money being sucked out of the owners on top of the already ridiculous bed tax. Again, just how is that money being used once again. This tax district has existed before and it was disbanded due to lack of management, trust, and purpose. So, yep, lets do that again. Same thing with forcing renters to have to drive across town on busy weekends to get a key. I know that if I had to drive through Big Bear during Christmas/New Year HELL ON WHEELS to pick up a key and sign a contract that I have already signed for and then got to the cabin to find an electronic lock on the door I would be absolutely livid and ballistic. When will common sense take over on both sides of the issues. Not today apparently.
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Sun Jul 21 2019, 09:54PM
Registered Member #42113
Joined: Tue Jan 29 2019, 08:25AM
Posts: 43
In response to the poster who mentioned the suckiness of having to deal with the noisy late night partiers, and trash, etc, I totally agree that the problem is bad. We almost bought a fixer upper in the neighborhood behind Timberline Lodge, but waited until a weekend to go out and see what the vibe was.

Yikes, literally every available inch ot the roads was crammed with day snowplayers who come up to experience the snow, be rude, leave trash, and park on your property, not caring if they block you in, leaving huge amounts of trash thrown on your front porch, cooking portable barbecues in your driveway, just ruining the whole experience. We obviously were appalled, and passed on the property.

So I get it that controls need to be put in place, it's just that what has been implemented actully does nothing for actually fixing the problem.

We moved here from down the hill, and luckily are over by the open land on the SW side of the valley, where 99% of the day visitors never make it to. I think that the actual
overnighter renters for the most part are respectful, but by sheer human density, end up bringing noise and mental invasion/ physical presence does definitely kill the quiet mountain solitude vibe enjoyed in years past.

It is thousands of times worse down the hill, as everywhere house prices are causing peope to clown house, and unfortunately it is an inevitable negative paradigm of population density that is impacting southern california.

I disagree with the solutions which like typical liberal-think only look at first gen solutions that ignore the patent consequences of harming the very people they purport to help(homeowners who are using their property to supplement income to stay alive) and the implemented regulations actually do near zero positive effect of reducing noise, trash, congestion, and rude flatlander, yet oopsie, cost money, lots of money to the homeowners, for an ineffective process, which only feeds the vampiric govt regulatory machine, with of course huge, non competitive salries for all the new staff to monitor the unchanged problem.

Perhaps something simple, like fining renters who create after hours noise, leave trash, etc from a deposit they have to prepay would mitigate some of the issues, but to have to meet face to face with the renters to evaluate if a renter is competent to rent is an emotionally based solution that fails when real world logic is applied. How many renters can even make the drive up the hill if they are drunk or blasted out of their minds on drugs where an average person can tell? And if someone IS wasted drunk already, what do they do? They pass out so actually the most quiet rentals would actually most likey be someone sleeping off their high. The ones that are the loudest in my experience here are the ones thst look most normal at checkin, but then party it up AFTER they get settled in, so the enforcement of having to do a face to face evaluation is meaningless. Just wait until a host Key delivery person refuses a rental to someone with mild cerebral palsy happens because they "look" weirded out on drugs. That lawsuit will have the potential to go class action for discrimination against BBL city council, and that will end the inneffectual ill thought out regulations for good.
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Mon Jul 22 2019, 08:59AM

Registered Member #39
Joined: Sat Oct 14 2006, 01:47PM
Posts: 3664
Well, sort to burst your bubble, but a face-to-face check in has been on the books for a number of years! It is to prevent OVERCROWDING! If the homeowner or manager goes to the property, they can see how many cars and people there are. Just like I see when they do the electronic door check in. I never hesitate to call code enforcement when I see more cars, people, loud parties, etc. It is MY neighborhood...NOT a freaking Flop-House ghetto.

I always say, DO NOT BUY a place you CANNOT afford! Why should the neighbors have to suffer for your mistakes!

Summer will be here soon!
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Mon Jul 22 2019, 09:45AM

Registered Member #2069
Joined: Mon Feb 08 2010, 05:57PM
Posts: 477
I'm curious.
If you don't have face-to-face check-in, how do currently you count the number of vehicles and people at your rental?
If code enforcement needs you to respond to a problem at the rental, and you live DTH, how do you manage that?
If you rely on the housekeeper, does that person pick up the loose trash and take it to Clean Bear or the dump for you? Call you if the toilet is plugged, etc.?
Does someone check the property before and after each rental to make sure everything is working, or do you rely on your temporary renters to do that for you, so the next renters arrive at a properly prepared place,. Who makes sure the fireplace and BBQ ashes are soaked in water and placed in a proper receptacle?
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Mon Jul 22 2019, 10:10AM
Registered Member #13817
Joined: Fri Jan 06 2017, 06:34PM
Posts: 272
Sounds like knee jerk response from the council who was tried of all the residents complaining. Still the rules and regulations aren’t has harsh like they are in other resort towns were the renter and owner get slapped with large minimum fine.
But to complain about about cheap unreliable labor, my answer is you get what you pay for. Any resident up here can tell you, it’s hard to find someone who’s price is reasonable and reliable. Personally I don’t carry short term rentals in positive light. I’ve had too many times where I woken up in middle night when I have to wake up 4am to go to work.
Personally I think the face to face is dumb idea and will add to our traffic problems. I see management companies like Razz who actually cares pay the price for the management companies who are more concerned about their Vegas get away. Unfortunately not much I can do to battle the city who shut down my highway for a bike race but not listen to any complaints I have since I live in county.
Razz- I wish you the best of luck and pray your business doesn’t become another victim of the council.
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Mon Jul 22 2019, 11:19AM

Registered Member #464
Joined: Thu Jun 14 2007, 09:20PM
Posts: 24
I applaud these changes. It's about time the city cares more about its residents than tourism and second home owners who choose to rent out their properties and not care about the effect that has on neighborhoods. Most full-time residents don't want to live next to a vacation rental for the very reasons listed here. Many of my friends have moved DTH this year because of the issue of family neighborhoods being destroyed by short-term rentals.

It wouldn't be so hard for an owner of a rental to find a local friend to hand of keys and be available in case of an emergency for a small fee (I do it for 2 rentals currently).

And...the people renting these properties deserve to stay in a clean house and have emergency situations handled in a timely manner.

I'm sorry your friend is so upset, but there are other options than having to sell and forfeit her income. You could always offer to be the property manager if you are local. Or she could hire a local company to manage it for her. There are several in BB.
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Rod the Photog
Mon Jul 22 2019, 12:12PM
Registered Member #184
Joined: Thu Nov 30 2006, 07:45AM
Posts: 369
Im playing Captain Obvious here but;
If you live near a rental, at 2am when drunk ass holes are screaming how they love to drink, its nice to have a phone number to call.

If the Management Co. if getting 25% they should be held to a "standard" and somehow charged to pay for a random inspection.

If someone is stupid enough to buy a home they can't afford, they should have played the stock market instead. At least they wouldn't look as stupid.....

Signed; A homeowner next door to a rental property.....

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